Interview with Tatiana Blackhorse
Interview with Tatiana Blackhorse
By Olivia Tencer, November 2023
As a Bard undergrad alumna, I know the importance of learning about a college’s environment from a student’s perspective. For this Native American Heritage Month, I wanted to create content that shied away from the institutional moral capital and performativity that we tend to see during heritage month programming. In thinking through what type of content would be most useful for our readers this month, I began to think about what relationships I have already created throughout my fellowship with Rethinking Place and what relationships may need tending to or a more formal introduction. Content that comes out of meaningful conversation and relationship building is deeply nourishing. Tatiana Blackhorse, a second semester sophomore studying sociology and psychology, is an individual I had the great opportunity to meet at a few Rethinking Place events. I heard all about the amazing work she has done in creating the Indigenous Students Association (ISA) here at Bard and felt inclined to speak with her. This interview takes place between myself and Tatiana where we discussed the ISA’s inception, her experiences as a Native student, and more.
Olivia Tencer: Could you please introduce yourself to me and our readers?
Tatiana Blackhorse B: Yes, my name is Tatiana Blackhorse. My heritage and ethnicity is I am half Diné, or also known as Navajo, from my father’s side, and Hungarian from my mother’s side. I am a Bard student and I am joint majoring in psychology and sociology.
OT: Thank you. My next question is, can you please tell me a little bit about how and why you founded the Indigenous Students Association at Bard?
TB: In highschool, I didn’t really have much of a way to express myself and my beliefs, not really because I faced a lot of negativity or backlash, but just because people didn’t really care. Or didn’t really know the history or usually just people would make fun of me sometimes if I brought up something about ceremonies or a lot of traditional practices that just seemed a bit foreign. I mean it’s highschool, and teenagers say stuff, I guess I wasn’t really hurt by it. But I did know that eventually I wanted a space for me to be able to express myself, but also for people who are willing to listen. When I was looking for colleges, it was a really big thing for me to have a community when I arrived. And Bard was definitely one of those schools that I was very interested in because my dad was picking up a few kids actually through Uber and he came home and my mom and I were like, how was it? And he said, oh these are some weird kids, some weird college kids. And we looked up Bard and we just loved the people. The programs and everything and also being in nature felt very therapeutic for me. I thought then I can definitely connect with nature a lot more than in other institutions. But another school I was looking at was Columbia University because they have a Native American Council, a lot of them actually who were in the Native American Council were Navajo and I really loved that, that I would have a community already when I got to a new school, but I mean, of course I chose Bard because I think Bard is just so much better for me personally as an institution and I can explore a lot more of my interests. When I came here and I saw the club list I was hoping I would see something related to Indigenous people but I didn’t find anything, so I thought to myself, why not just create a space, an inclusive space not excluding anyone, a space just to talk about Indigenous people, the practices, and also feel safe and feel comfortable expressing myself because I know maybe there will be people who would want to join. But also I was hoping to find more Indigenous students at Bard through the Association when I created it. However, during the spring semester when I first started the club there were no Indigenous students a part of the club, which was fine because the whole initiative is honestly to just shed a more positive light on Indigenous people and the traditional culture of it. Because I feel that lately a lot of these movements and a lot of these associations or organizations tend to really focus on the oppression and the difficulties and obstacles that a lot of Native Americans and Indigenous people face. Of course with reservations, boarding schools, trauma and alot of the history of genocide, those are all very important topics. But I personally feel that a lot of the time that makes me feel that I have to identify as being discriminated against or oppressed when in reality I never really feel like that. Of course I didn’t grow up on the reservation or anything, both of my parents taught me to be very proud of who I am, so that’s why I am proud of who I am, because of my parents and how they kept me in touch with my culture. I guess I am very lucky in that sense, that I don’t feel those emotions and I know many Native Amercans and Indigenous people do feel those emotions and that is entirely valid. We have gone through a lot as a people, but that’s not the purpose of my club, the purpose of my club is to make sure that people still see the culture being practiced, being resilient throughout all of these obstacles and all of the history, that people are still practicing their traditional beliefs, and people are still being in touch with who they are even after all of the years. I wanted it to be more of a positive environment, so I guess that is a very long answer of why I started the Indigenous Students Association.
A Three Sisters Bonfire hosted by the Indigenous Studies Association, Spring 2023
OT: No, that is great. Wonderful. Going off of that I want to know more about what your experience has been as a clubhead of this group You have talked a lot about these aspirations and things that you wanted for this group, and you said you didn’t have a lot of Indigenous students join in the spring semester, but how has that made you feel now to be a clubhead, to be kind of a leader at Bard for your group, and other Indigenous students possibly at Bard?
TB: I would not be truthful, if I didn’t say there weren’t a lot of complications with being a clubhead, it was very new for me. I know I wanted to be a leader because I have always had that kind of mentality. And I knew it wasn’t going to be easy but I also didn’t realize how strict a lot of the rules are when it comes to being a clubhead. All the processing that goes on, all the orders and rules, so for me it was a big eye opening experience to just see how difficult it is to navigate an institution and the system that it has for students. I guess I have just been learning a lot, how to navigate the systems that are being placed, like purchase orders, like reserving a space for events, and how competitive that can be with a lot of other student organizations. Also, I believe there are over 180 clubs, and you know being a standout amongst the rest, it can be very difficult, so you know those are some difficult things that I have to face. Otherwise the feedback and reaction to the Indigenous Students Association has been very positive, which really reassures me as a clubhead and to see all the support I get from Rethinking Place, the Indigenous Studies program, and also the students who are a part of my club. The Indigenous Students Association would literally be nowhere without all my amazing members who support me and are patient with me because I am running it fairly by myself, and of course I get help from some of the members regarding flyers and art. All the logistical things are really difficult and a lot of work, which is fine, but you know I have the support from my members and other faculty at Bard that really make me feel optimistic and feel like I am actually making a change. So, it is not really about me, of course I started the initiative, but you know I have all the support in the world. Therefore, I feel like that is what really makes me keep going and overall I have a lot of people’s support in what I am doing, and want to listen and want to learn and that just really excites me and I want to keep doing more things because of that.
OT: Amazing. Yeah it can be a process being a club at Bard for sure. So as an undergrad student, I don’t know if I know what year you are.
TB: I am a second semester sophomore.
OT: So we are only on campus for around four years, what do you envision for the Indigenous Students Association after you have graduated?
TB: Actually it’s a little less time for me because I was a Bard early college student, so I will be graduating a semester early, so it is only three and a half years. What I envision for after I graduate is…actually I haven’t really thought that far to be honest. And someone actually had a pretty similar question during one of my meetings of how big I see this being and I think it doesn’t have to be. I mean I am all for thinking big, you know the sky’s the limit, but in the end I think I kind of just want to see what will happen with it. I don’t have many Indigenous students who are a part of the club, so when it comes to passing down leadership right now it doesn’t seem very feasible just because I don’t know if I would want a non-Indigenous person being the next clubhead. But then again, I still have a few semesters ahead of me and who knows who will pop up and also be very excited about it. I’m not sure what I see after graduating. I’d hope I would find somebody who would take on that initiative and be very passionate about it like I am, but for now all I see is just being at a very good place. I do not mind being an intimate club, being able to just focus and dive deep into the history and into the culture, but also providing events and just you know kinda being like a typical club at Bard. You know I don’t want to be anything intimidating or flashy, because there is a lot already going on and I think that’s amazing that there are people like the New Red Order or organizations that are doing very big things and being very vocal, but as i’ve said I think i’d like to maintain that peaceful aspect of it. I feel like not everything has to be so grand to be effective, so yeah I’m not sure what the future holds.
OT: That is all really valid. My next question, as a Native student at a primarily white institution, can you describe your experience at Bard in whatever way you feel comfortable? Whatever experiences you’d like to share?
TB: I have had just an amazing experience at Bard. When I hear the experiences people of color at Bard have that aren’t very positive, it really upsets me as a person of color, that there are students or faculty that might not be supporting the students of color on campus as much as they should be supporting. So in that regard I do understand how one can feel negative and isolated at an institution like this. Especially because it is mainly white individuals. However, for me I find that, in the ISA, there are a lot more white people, but there are also some students of color as well and I think it’s mainly about coming together. That’s why I didn’t want ISA to be mainly exclusively Indigenous, not only because there aren’t many on campus, but also because it’s about being inclusive, being open to those who want to make a change and who want to learn. Because I think a lot of the discrimination that happens and a lot of oppression and everything, comes from a lack of knowledge. And, because people don’t know the history of a lot of cultures and the genocide that many people have had to face, not just Native Americans but a lot of other heritages. So I think the whole purpose is just to be able to educate people and for me I don’t think I have had any experiences where I felt targeted, where I felt discriminated against. I mean maybe there might of been something that’s happened that I kinda completely didn’t notice but as I’ve said I don’t really walk my day to day looking for things like that at all, not saying that other people do, just I don’t feel any sort of way, I just feel like a student who is also going through the same struggles as every other student. Everyone faces their own struggles so who am I to say that the white students have it better because that might not always necessarily be the case either, at least in my opinion. So I don’t really think too much about the struggles of other people in a way that,” oh, it’s so much worse for people of this group or that group”. We are all college students, nobody should be facing discrimination, but at least, luckily I can say for myself that I have not been one of those students and I have just gotten a lot of support.
The dance and drumming group Kalpulli Huehuelahtolli with Tatiana, November 2023
OT: This kind of goes with the next question, and if you feel like you don’t have any other thoughts on this that’s totally fine because you have shared a lot on this already. I know I shared this podcast episode from All My Relations with you and it is basically an episode that talks about if colleges and universities are primarily white, colonial, and western institutions, then should Native students aim to go to these types of schools. Which is a big question. It seems like as Americans we are told that college is what you need to do as a student, as a kid, like that is the next step. And I don’t know if you also felt like that as a kid or were expected to go to College, but if you have any of your own personal thoughts on if these institutions are even safe, or the “right” step for Native students to take. And you know you said you feel safe here at Bard and you feel like just a normal student dealing with normal struggles as a student but if there are any other thoughts you have on that I would love to know more.
TB: See for clarification the only reason I had these thoughts was that even though I didn’t come from a privileged wealthy background, I came from a loving home with two loving parents, and accepting parents. And I didn’t get the best education when I was younger, but when we moved to a more “white” area I got a better education which has inspired me to continue my education which is why I pursued college in the first place and also because the career I want to pursue requires a college degree. So, I am the fortunate Native American student that can say I go to college, I get a good education at a private institution and I don’t feel discriminated against, and that’s a very privileged thing to say. I didn’t grow up on a reservation, I didn’t grow up with those hardships. Did I grow up with a wealthy background? No, but as I’ve said my parents are very loving and there was always food on the table so I can’t say that I have had to haul water or live without electricity, that I have had to go days without food or live in an area where my parents might be dealing with drug addiction or alcohol abuse, and negligence and everything. I don’t know how safe one might feel if they are in that position to go to an institution where there will be people who don’t understand those struggles and might say something insensitive about it because yes even though I have heard some insensitive comments about Native Americans in my life, like “they need to get over the history” or “they need to get over their living situation”, “just leave the reservation”, and yes, i’ve gotten upset about those comments because you can’t just say that, but I would get upset for any other ethnic group if somebody said something as ignorant as that. But I don’t know if I have truly felt how one may feel if they actually went through that kind of upbringing, I only know about all these experiences not because of school, because school doesn’t teach this, I only know because of my dad. He is a very big inspiration for me because he was able to be an outlier in a way, to leave the reservation, to have a better life for himself, and he is also a very lucky person for that, and of course he has worked for it as well, but not everyone, especially in America, can just work hard and get a better life for themself. Because the system likes us to believe that, that’s what is fair, that’s what is working, but it’s all empty promises basically, so in the end I guess that’s a little context of like a Native American going to a white institution. I don’t think one should limit themself. I do believe there should be more support for Indigenous students, there should be more support on reservations, and that’s the change that just needs to be made systematically. There just needs to be more change when it comes to teaching Indigenous children and making sure they get the education that they need to go to college if they would like. But also to teach all students about the true history of Indigenous peoples. Like I said, maybe if I didn’t get as good of an education, I might not have wanted to pursue college or university, and in the end you don’t have to go to college to be successful. But I do think living in America you know it kind of forces people sometimes to choose that route, and it is especially challenging for Indigenous peoples. So I would just say in that regard, there needs to be a change happening within schools for people wanting to pursue a better education for themselves, and if they want…let me put myself in a position of one wanting to go to college but feeling like it might be unsafe, I think in that way there’s a lot that goes into that, but to not be as scared, to not be scared to go to a college because of white people. I don’t believe people should limit themselves just because society says, oh because your Native or because your this or that you’re not deemed to have a higher education, you should be able to pursue whatever you want to pursue without fear, but as I said I guess that’s just a little answer I have for that, I can’t really speak in that position because I grew up in a different way than other Indigenous students.
OT: Totally fair, going off of that, do you have any opinions or ideas of how then if there are students who do feel this way, as a leader of ISA, there could be potential students who talk to you about feeling this way, are there ways colleges and universities can better support Native students?
TB: Yes, well for example at Columbia they really support the Native American Council, not only financially but just through advertising them and really making sure Indigenous students have a community already set for them. At Bard this is a fairly new thing, where we have Rethinking Place and everything, where we are finding a way to make Indigenous students feel more included on campus. And I have this initiative where I want to create a safe space for students. Other institutions, however, should also have a lot of the resources that Bard is offering like Rethinking Place, accepting more Native American students on their campus, but making sure that they have a space to get together. I guess I am inspired by Kappa House at Bard. Where they have OEI, or ECHO scholars, or POSSE groups and they all kind of have that house for themselves to be together, be a community and to have a safe space. I think a lot of institutions should have something like that for students of color and that includes Indigenous students as well. Having a space for students to be comfortable and themselves and express themselves, because in the end I think we all find the most comfort in being able to see someone like us and also not needing to explain one’s struggles or history because they already know. Institutions overall should admit more students of color, more Indigenous students, but also reach out to Indigenous students as well. And create more opportunities in general, how they create more opportunities I can’t tell you, that is out of my control as a student, maybe one day I could do something like that, but for now as a student…
OT: It is not your job.
TB: Exactly.
OT: Great, those are all the questions that I have written down, is there anything else you would like to share. You could share events you have done that you have liked, new ideas you are thinking about, anything, anything you want to share.
TB: Yes, well November is Native American Heritage month so we have three events coming up. We have the dance and drumming group Saturday the 11th, we are going to have an open discussion with some food exploring indigeneity events on the 15th and on the 28th we are going to have a dream catcher workshop where we will teach people how to make dream catchers. Past events I was really happy with, the outcome of the movie screening, Wind River, which is a very impactful movie and it was a big accomplishment for me to know that people learned from it and are still thinking about it. Another event that happened last semester was a bonfire with three sisters where we made soup and fry bread and we had a little ceremony basically with the fire, peyote songs, ceremonial songs with a few of my relatives and yeah so i hope that the bonfire with the three sisters will be an annual thing in the spring because it was just so fun and I would really love to continue sharing that with people. The plan is to just have more events about tradition, about informative things, I am hoping to do a little more about the environment as well. Just to add to that I am very appreciative of all the support because I would not be anywhere without it. Because what’s an idea if nobody supports it.
OT: Thank you Tatiana, this has been really great.
The dance and drumming group Kalpulli Huehuelahtolli performing on November 11th.